22: Exploring Ancient Wisdom and Plant Medicine with Angell Deer - Plants Saved My Life

Episode 22

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Published on:

31st Jul 2023

22: Exploring Ancient Wisdom and Plant Medicine with Angell Deer

22: Exploring Ancient Wisdom and Plant Medicine with Angell Deer

Plants Saved My Life

Join Plants Saved My Life in this captivating episode as we delve into the world of Angell Deer, a multifaceted individual embodying roles such as mystic, medicine man, and beekeeper. Discover how Angell integrates ancient wisdom from Andean Cosmology and Norse Shamanism into his teachings, while exploring the transformative power of plant medicine, entheogens, psychedelics, and herbal dieta. Gain insights into his profound dedication to healing the world and fostering a harmonious vision built on meaningful relationships and reverence for all living beings. Don't miss this enlightening conversation with a renowned speaker, educator, and advocate for the preservation of bees and pollinators. Tune in now for an inspiring exploration of spirituality, ancient traditions, and the transformative potential of plant-based healing modalities.

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Plants Saved My Life is a weekly podcast blending education, scientific research, compassion, and storytelling. Featuring real stories from patients who have overcome chronic conditions with the help of plant medicine and specialized medical practitioners, therapists, shamans, and other neotraditional healers exploring non-pharmacological means of medical intervention. Join us weekly for fascinating conversations with people whose lives were saved by plants. Let's demystify and destigmatize entheogens, naturopathy, plant-based medicines, holistic therapies, psychedelics, and functional nutrition. Join us as we pay homage to the plants and fungi we owe our health and happiness.



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Copyright 2023 Entheo Wellness - Plants Saved My life

Music - Psychedelic Es by Ostenvegr under Creative Commons License

Transcript
Raven:

Hey everyone.

Raven:

Raven here with another episode of Plants Saved My Life.

Raven:

This week we are sitting down with Angell Deer, that is his real name, and I'm

Raven:

Angell has trained as a veterinarian, medicine man, mystic, permaculturist,

Raven:

minister, international speaker, beekeeper, and many more.

Raven:

Previously, he was nominated Entrepreneur of the Year, recognized as an earth

Raven:

rockstar and even served as an advisor for the United Nations Population Fund.

Raven:

But he gave all that away and has now dedicated his life to remembering,

Raven:

through the lineages of Andy and cosmology and norse shamanism.

Raven:

He does this by running the Sanctuary, a Shamanic Healing Center located in

Raven:

of the New York Bee Sanctuary, a national nonprofit advocating for the

Raven:

He and I are going to discuss reclaiming our own sanity and health

Raven:

through relearning our connection to the land plans and ancient wisdom.

Raven:

So join me as we welcome Angell to the show.

Raven:

Awesome.

Raven:

Thank you, Angell for being able to join us today on Plants Saved My Life.

Raven:

You have such an extensive background.

Raven:

I would love for you to just introduce yourself, if you don't mind.

Angell:

Sure.

Angell:

Well, my name is Angell Deer and I live on, uh, Lenape territory that is

Angell:

now called, uh, Catskill, upstate New York, two hours from New York City.

Angell:

Um, I am a holistic medicine practitioner.

Angell:

I work with energy healing, breathwork, uh, plants, land connection native

Angell:

traditions, and, uh, you know, I've been living in US for 20 years now.

Angell:

I'm originally from Corsica, a small island in the Mediterranean Sea.

Angell:

Um, and uh, yeah, that's, that's pretty much it.

Angell:

I mean, I could say much more, but let's, let's start it there, I guess.

Raven:

Yeah.

Raven:

Truthfully, I feel that you could write a book and I would

Raven:

Recently you made a post on social media about how , 10 years ago, you abandoned

Raven:

one-way ticket to India, and it kind of catalyzed , these changes in your life.

Raven:

I'd love to hear about that.

Angell:

Sure.

Angell:

well, I did probably spend around, um, 20 years in, uh, corporate world, so I

Angell:

So I have a PhD in veterinary medicine.

Raven:

Oh, wow.

Angell:

And I worked for, uh, pet food companies and then I worked in

Angell:

I was c e o of different companies in France, in uk, and then in us.

Angell:

That's how I arrived here in the United States.

Angell:

Uh, And then I ended up starting my own business in the internet, uh, realms.

Angell:

Uh, I was, , the c e o and the founder, the co-founder of a company that

Angell:

So product for pregnant women and women with children up to five year old.

Angell:

Uh, I raised a lot of money for that company, uh, close to 50 millions

Angell:

from scratch with a friend up to, you know, 200 employees and, you

Angell:

know, a big success story, let's say in the, in the corporate world.

Angell:

Um, and what happened is, you know, as I, I guess, climbed the corporate

Angell:

own ventures, there was something in me that felt very, uh, unresolved or empty.

Angell:

You, you want to put it?

Angell:

And, uh, I guess the more I was getting successful, the more I

Angell:

could see that maybe this life was not about, that took many years.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

And, and, you know, I was making good money and, and I love what I was doing.

Angell:

You know, it's not like I didn't like it.

Angell:

Uh, I enjoy building a business.

Angell:

I enjoy, you know, managing a team and working with my business partner and

Angell:

even raising money was kind of fun, even if it was exhausting at time.

Angell:

Uh, and then came a point, I mean, the few things happened, but I think one of

Angell:

the big one was, um, I got nominated to, uh, be the Entrepreneur of the Year in us.

Angell:

It's kind of a big award in, um, I guess in the entrepreneur community.

Angell:

And when I came on stage for this award, I just had this, um, Or looks

Angell:

strike that came through me, kind of unexpected that this was a lie.

Angell:

And what I mean by that is that, you know, I, I don't know if I deserve the award.

Angell:

It, it doesn't really matter.

Angell:

But, um, I realized that what I was representing, what I was

Angell:

So there was kind of, uh, a big stretch between the public figures and, you know,

Angell:

lot of big programs out there, and there was a lot of things that led to that

Angell:

Play the, the young c e o and, and the successful entrepreneur

Angell:

But there was just this void inside something that was telling

Angell:

Right?

Angell:

And, and it's not really, I think sometimes people think, oh, it's

Angell:

because, you know, we, I criticize this kind of career, right?

Angell:

I, I have friends that, in fact my business partner of the time, uh, founded

Angell:

another startup and he's very successful at it and he's still running it.

Angell:

Uh, and you know, so I have nothing against that.

Angell:

But for me, there was a misalignment.

Angell:

There was something else that was calling me.

Angell:

I had no idea what it was.

Angell:

I just knew that whatever I was doing was not it.

Angell:

And it was very blurry.

Angell:

But I literally came out of stage, uh, kind of fell on the ground on my knees and

Angell:

I guess the meaning of my life, the meaning of being alive.

Angell:

You know, why are we alive?

Angell:

What are we doing things, where is that going?

Angell:

And I could just see that if I continue doing that, um, I was not gonna

Angell:

And I would probably go into depression or addiction or I don't know, you

Angell:

know, but I could just see it was not going to be a good path for me.

Raven:

Wow.

Raven:

That's, that's really powerful.

Raven:

Thanks for sharing.

Raven:

I think that resonates with a lot of people.

Raven:

As we try to climb, even if you're climbing the corporate

Raven:

ladder, you're successful by all traditional descriptions of success.

Raven:

You're living the quote unquote American dream , so much so that

Raven:

you're receiving awards, you're being entrepreneur of the year.

Raven:

That's incredible.

Raven:

But also feeling that level of unfulfillment, like this

Raven:

the way the identity wraps up in with your career and you're receiving an award.

Raven:

However, this isn't me.

Raven:

I'm receiving an award for something that isn't me.

Raven:

It's something I've worked on.

Raven:

And I think that there's a lot of discourse and a lot of people's souls,

Raven:

live in a culture where if you're lucky, you can skate past addiction

Raven:

and depression and then you can just work until you retire and die.

Raven:

And that's like, like you said, that's not what we're meant to do.

Raven:

That's not.

Raven:

Connecting ourself with.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

And you know, kind of avoiding it, because I remember reading article at

Angell:

and newspaper about the amount of, uh, depression, alcoholism, addictions, I

Angell:

sleep that are overstressed in the, uh, successful entrepreneur's community.

Angell:

You know, I'm not talking about the entrepreneur that really struggle,

Angell:

that don't have enough money for his company and, you know, things like that.

Angell:

But people that are successful, right, that have a big company and maybe

Angell:

fact, I can't remember the statistic, but I think it was around 70%.

Angell:

So it was like two third of the CEOs and entrepreneur, in fact

Angell:

It, it was a huge number.

Angell:

And I think at the time also as I was going through that process, A very

Angell:

a lot of money from Pret VCs committed suicide, and he was someone that I

Angell:

knew, um, and that I would've never imagined to be so close to that edge.

Angell:

So there was a lot of pointers, right?

Angell:

There was things that, yeah, there's a facade.

Angell:

There is what you read in, uh, in, uh, magazines like entrepreneur magazines

Angell:

Publication out there, but it doesn't tell the personal story,

Angell:

And, you know, sometime we struggle in life, right?

Angell:

We, we go through stuff that is difficult and, you know, it's not

Angell:

always easy to, to run big companies or even to be an employee, right?

Angell:

But it doesn't mean that we go through processes that potentially can destroy us.

Angell:

And it seems like this constant run and chasing of something bigger

Angell:

and better all the time, which is, you know, what we were doing right?

Angell:

We always had to raise money, we always had to grow the

Angell:

Um, it's never ending.

Angell:

So when do you put the stop?

Angell:

What, what is the metrics, right?

Angell:

And the metrics very often are, okay, how much money on my bank

Angell:

account, or, you know, what, what is the potential big exit?

Angell:

So I can stop doing that and then I'll do what is great or what I'm really

Angell:

And even in my previous industry, I work as a C E O for

Angell:

And there was a lot, I was friends with a lot CEO in that industry.

Angell:

And I could just see that all of these people, if you go beyond the cocktail

Angell:

about them and their, their company, if you know their life, their life

Angell:

That doesn't mean everybody's like that.

Angell:

You know, there's people that probably have a amazing, fulfilling personal

Angell:

and don't have depression or about anxiety, but it's not the majority.

Angell:

And so there was definitely a lot of things that were telling me,

Angell:

okay, what is, what does it mean to be really successful in life?

Angell:

So that, that was my big question at the time.

Angell:

How do I define success?

Angell:

And I defined it through the society I'm living in that puts metrics on it.

Angell:

It is, you know, maybe the size of your house or the money on your bank

Angell:

company you're running, the size of it and the money you've raised.

Angell:

And, and I was like, that, that's not my definition of success.

Angell:

I mean, if I'm not that happy inside, I, how much more

Angell:

And in fact, there's a lot of study on that that proved that

Angell:

Uh, right.

Angell:

So yeah, I, yeah, I took a leap.

Angell:

I guess I, I quit all of it.

Angell:

I was like, okay, I'm going to go on that quest.

Angell:

I'm going to go see someone somewhere, ask some answers or

Angell:

maybe some better questions than the one I'm asking myself right now.

Raven:

That is so brave.

Raven:

That's so brave.

Raven:

How'd you do that?

Angell:

Well, I, you know, I'm very, uh, spontaneous and I'm, uh, you know,

Angell:

very good for building businesses, but that's also very good for taking action.

Angell:

And I just kind of, uh, you know, I was already starting at the time

Angell:

for many years already, in fact to work with some spiritual teachers.

Angell:

You know, I was studying adv, vid donta, so the Hindu scriptures, and

Angell:

I was fascinated by the teaching of duality and non duality.

Angell:

Um, and I was doing yoga and I was doing, you know, other spiritual practices.

Angell:

And every time I would go to those classes, I would be with my teacher.

Angell:

At the time, I felt so nourished.

Angell:

I was like, this is food.

Angell:

This is like better than my top restaurant last night.

Raven:

Yeah, of course being a cocktail hour wasn't, you

Raven:

Whenever you're nourishing your soul and your spirit, like that

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

So that was my food and I was like, okay, this is wanting to pursue

Angell:

so, I didn't know what I would look like in term of, uh, career.

Angell:

I guess that's how I thought about it at the time, right?

Angell:

In term of job, what would be my next job?

Angell:

Uh, my next company or who I would work for.

Angell:

And, uh, at the time I was also working with, uh, with quite famous,

Angell:

And I went to, uh, a week training with him and, uh, very interesting

Angell:

And, uh, yeah, I told him, I said, you know, this is what's going on.

Angell:

This is like, you know, and, and I told him, I think, uh, you know, I think I need

Angell:

I, I need to retreat from this world.

Angell:

And his answer was quite striking to me.

Angell:

Um, I don't know if we can use the f word on this podcast, but.

Angell:

So he was like, why the fuck do you want to go in an ash run?

Angell:

So you have to imagine the situation, right?

Angell:

The guy is much older than me, he's a monk, and, and he answers

Angell:

And part of me, I think at the time, you know, when I look back

Angell:

now, I think a part of me wanted him to love me or appreciate me.

Angell:

And if I say I'm gonna wanna go to ashram, he's going to

Angell:

And he say no.

Angell:

He say, you know, if you do that, and I've said that to many of my

Angell:

with, I say, you know, sometime we are so inwards with our ourself that

Angell:

in fact going in silence and all of that can in fact amplify those voices.

Angell:

And he said, you know, your life has been a lot about you already.

Angell:

It's been a lot about you.

Angell:

So he said, what you should do, what I recommend is that, yeah, you can go

Angell:

To be off service.

Angell:

And he said then in three months, in six months in a year, at some point when

Angell:

whatever I'm talking about here, at some point you will know, call me and I'll

Angell:

Right?

Angell:

And a friend of mine, I'd worked with Mother Teresa for many

Angell:

And so I called my friend in New York and I said, Hey, I think I'm going to go

Angell:

How do I do that?

Angell:

So I said, well just take a one-way ticket, go to Calcutta and go at the

Angell:

you want to serve and you can walk for a day or for your whole rest of your life.

Angell:

They won't ask any question.

Angell:

They right.

Angell:

And that's what I did.

Angell:

You know, I literally got rid of everything I had.

Angell:

I left with one backpack.

Angell:

So I sold my car, I stopped renting my apartment.

Angell:

I sold everything I own, and I basically, what was left of me was my

Angell:

And I went from, you know, one extreme to another, right?

Angell:

New York City and the wealth and the easiness to india

Angell:

It was end of June, I remember.

Angell:

Uh, and, uh, extreme poverty and, you know, and walking with, you

Angell:

Teresa started there, which is the, uh, home for the dying people.

Angell:

So basically you go outside, you look for, you find people that are not

Angell:

wash them and clean them and take care of them until they passed away.

Angell:

You know, our whole model was everybody should die with dignity.

Angell:

And so you offer some dignity to other human beings.

Angell:

And I walk in the, in the home for the, for the men.

Angell:

And, uh, that really completely changed my life in so many ways.

Angell:

I mean, so much that, you know, I spent over a year abroad and doing work

Angell:

The monk that told me, called me to go to Nash.

Angell:

I just got so transformed that I came back, uh, with a better

Angell:

And I didn't know need to do those things.

Angell:

And it was amazing for one year, you know, it was, nothing was about me.

Angell:

It was all about someone else.

Angell:

And it was, uh, probably one of the most profound, um, spiritual awakening

Angell:

there after a few months at literally a full-blown awakening, as we can call it.

Angell:

Um, yeah.

Angell:

I still came back to New York a year later without knowing what I was going

Angell:

joy, so much, so much gratitude, so much like tranquility, happiness, bliss.

Angell:

I was just relaxed for the first time in I think 40 years.

Raven:

That is a very powerful lesson in duality.

Raven:

I mean, honestly, coming from New York City and then going to India during

Raven:

powerful from going from a life that you were building up something for

Raven:

yourself, you're getting the award and then to dedicating it to service.

Raven:

that's not only brave, I have to commend you for that, but I have to

Angell:

You know, at some point.

Angell:

Um, then I went to work in Nepal for a few months, and then I work in Sri Lanka and.

Angell:

Wow.

Angell:

And then I ended up, my last mission was in the Philippines.

Angell:

A friend of mine, she's, uh, she's American, but she's from the Philippines

Angell:

and she runs a big nonprofit there, and she needed some help on the ground.

Angell:

And so my, one of my last mission was to, you know, was living in a, in a rice field

Angell:

and in a, in a school that were for the children of the farmers, the rice farmers.

Angell:

And, and we were doing permaculture project and insect houses and cooking

Angell:

And it, it was, it was amazing.

Angell:

It was really beautiful.

Angell:

Um, and also it was, you know, always I choose during that travel to live

Angell:

life and experience life without the comfort that I could have access to.

Angell:

So meaning I would, you know, live with those people in their home.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

And sleep, you know, very busy places like same in India, I could have.

Angell:

You know, book at a very nice hotel, but I was like, no, I'm going to, it

Angell:

know, even $50 a night, which is a lot in India for a hotel, uh, when

Angell:

during the day you're gonna take care of people that literally have nothing.

Angell:

Like, aside from what they're wearing, that's pretty much

Angell:

And so at some point came the question, okay, do I keep doing that?

Angell:

And there was a big pull towards that because I was just so happy that

Angell:

no more question I felt so, like I, everything is fine that that's life.

Angell:

And I met, you know, amazing people, uh, doing that.

Angell:

People that do that for their life, right?

Angell:

That commit to that kind of life of service.

Angell:

And it was so inspiring.

Angell:

And then I realized, well, a lot of people in the United States,

Angell:

Really need, really are suffering too.

Angell:

And I know those people because, uh, they were my friends,

Angell:

They were, you know, people that live in my community.

Angell:

And I was like, people would benefit so much from all the things I've

Angell:

and my personal transformation I think could really help people.

Angell:

And so I came back to the US and then I started going back to Peru, which

Angell:

I've been right before leaving to start also studying with native people there.

Angell:

So, spent a lot of time in the jungle of Peru, especially with

Angell:

the Shipibo and uh, and in the Andes, uh, in the mountain of Peru.

Angell:

Well, I don't know about everywhere, but let's say a few countries.

Angell:

The drive was never, you know, the drive was never, oh, I wanna go to

Angell:

Bali, or I wanna go to Costa Rica, or I wanna go to Peru because it's nice.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

My, my drive was, I want to learn and I want to heal.

Angell:

And it's not about holidays.

Angell:

Like literally, I haven't taken any holidays in the past 15 years.

Angell:

People don't already believe that.

Angell:

They see I travel, but even when I travel, I'm going to see a teacher, I'm

Angell:

going to see an elder, I'm going to do something that is about development.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

And maybe that's a problem.

Angell:

I should be able to take early days and relax.

Angell:

But I feel so called into my mission today that, you know, that's,

Angell:

So, yeah, I always did that.

Angell:

And I think after, you know, many years of doing that, and all the elders I've

Angell:

I, I really changed, you know, something was changing a little bit every day.

Angell:

I didn't realize, but at some point I was just a very different person.

Angell:

The big change was, I was happy despite, there was probably more uncertainty in my

Angell:

life than ever that it's not like I left with 5 million on my bank account, right?

Angell:

I, I left everything.

Angell:

I didn't take any money.

Angell:

I was like, I'm quitting, right?

Angell:

So I surrender my shares.

Angell:

Like people think, oh, famous entrepreneur, right?

Angell:

No, you have no money until you sell the business.

Angell:

And, and I left before it was sold, so I literally didn't leave with money.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

But somehow it didn't matter.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

It was not, I was not afraid of that.

Angell:

Somehow I was like, oh, you know, I, I was successful before.

Angell:

If I need to take a job somewhere to make money, I'll do it right.

Angell:

I can do it.

Angell:

I've done it before.

Angell:

So I didn't really worry about that anymore.

Angell:

I was more worried about the state.

Angell:

Of humanity and, and, and, and what, what role do I play in that?

Angell:

What role do I want to play?

Angell:

You know?

Angell:

And that's what's more where what was daunting to me, the thing that keep

Raven:

Yeah.

Raven:

I think that's something the definitely resonates with a lot of listeners because

Raven:

I, for one, would love to go to India, but I worry about the money aspect.

Raven:

But then, like you said, if you trust in yourself and you trust in the universe,

Raven:

you can have that level of joy because you can trust that it's, it's gonna work.

Raven:

I mean, I'll make it work.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

We don't, we don't really need that much money when we're in India.

Angell:

And I think, you know, and I want to do that for my kids and I want to do that

Angell:

I think being truly of service, but in a way that is not about you at all.

Angell:

So that is not about, you know, yeah.

Angell:

That literally you are just going like, almost like a one-way street, right?

Angell:

Just to give what you're going to receive is gonna be miraculous.

Angell:

And I've done, you know, amazing ceremonies and work with elders and

Angell:

things that I've profoundly transformed in the Andes and in Jungle and all that.

Angell:

But that experience in India, I mean, having a full blown transformation,

Angell:

like literally awakening and kind of a kundalini transformation, right?

Angell:

Like you are so wide open that you can see beyond what's really in front of you

Angell:

of what's at stake here Was miraculous for me, you know, because I, I was a

Angell:

scientist, I was a business person, even if I always was spiritual.

Angell:

And I always been attracted to that and studying the scriptures

Angell:

for many years already, that that was a direct experience.

Angell:

And it was not because of anything but me being of service.

Angell:

And that's still, you know, that's more than 10 years now.

Angell:

I don't know how long it is, but, um, yeah, that is 10 years in fact,

Angell:

So alive.

Raven:

How do you now bring that experience and that joy back

Raven:

to your own community that you, that you left a little bit ago?

Angell:

I mean, I come from a, yeah.

Angell:

The retreat center here, you know, uh, I own a land and you know, part

Angell:

of the land as a retreat center and part of the land is where I'm living.

Angell:

Uh, but I'm in service to that land.

Angell:

Right?

Angell:

That's, it's like a marriage.

Angell:

Uh, you know, I always tell people, I think if you already want to

Angell:

transform, you need to settle somewhere and you put your nest.

Angell:

I think if you keep moving left and right and you don't put

Angell:

Not just for one month to help someone or six months there, and then two

Angell:

years there, you're never going to understand this prayer of the earth.

Angell:

In fact, in Peru where the lineage I've been studying now for a

Angell:

My teacher, when I wanted to study from him, I first, I had to chase him

Angell:

for years before he said yes, cuz he didn't want to be teaching at all.

Angell:

I mean, most of those people, they don't want to teach the good one.

Angell:

They, they just want to, you know, live their, their life, right?

Angell:

And they're okay to be with you, but they don't really want to be called teachers.

Angell:

But anyway, the first thing he told me, he said, you know, I say you need to plant

Angell:

I'm going to give you some corn.

Angell:

And corn is very sacred in Peru, like, you know, in Mexico and other

Angell:

And.

Angell:

I want you to build our relationship with that corn.

Angell:

And once you have grown it, harvested it, and understand the cycle of giving your

Angell:

and what you're going to get back from that, once you really understand what's

Angell:

going on there, come back to me and I'll teach you because you'll be ready.

Angell:

But he say, you need to stop praying for the earth.

Angell:

You see all those prayers that everyone does.

Angell:

Doesn't matter if you don't not know how to be a caretaker, a real caretaker.

Raven:

Wow.

Raven:

Yeah.

Raven:

So it's the lessons of service.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

And it was again, right, it's like being of service to, you know,

Angell:

And, and that was my commitment.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

And now, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm learning from him.

Angell:

But you know, my, he, he's a medicine person.

Angell:

He's a, he's teaching a few people, even if he doesn't call himself a, a

Angell:

He's a father, he's a beekeeper.

Angell:

He's a forager.

Angell:

He make essential oils.

Angell:

He make a lot of different things right from the land, not to sell it just because

Angell:

And, and yes, sometime he teach, right?

Angell:

Sometime he, he's an amazing teacher by the way.

Angell:

He's an incredibly talented teacher of, of cosmologies in

Angell:

Uh, but he believes that we cannot learn any of that until we connect

Angell:

And I think that's my difficulty.

Angell:

You know, when I have students and people that want to learn from me,

Angell:

attack, tell people just come on the land and you're just going spend

Angell:

the day weeding and pining woods and chopping woods and doing this and that.

Angell:

And they don't understand that this is the teaching, this is the most important.

Angell:

Cuz people want the magic.

Angell:

They want the the secrets, they want the special things, right.

Angell:

But if you cannot experience magic in your everyday life, in a simple act

Angell:

or an animal, you'll never find true magic in any other experiences.

Angell:

It doesn't matter if it's plant medicine or anything else,

Angell:

That would, that would be an experience, but it would not be embodied.

Angell:

It would be momentary.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

You might have these big things, but it's not in your body fully yet.

Angell:

It's not anchored.

Angell:

It doesn't alchemize fully.

Angell:

And you see that a lot today, right?

Angell:

People go back and forth and they do a lot of ceremonies and they do that, you know,

Angell:

and right, that they're so disconnected from even their parents, their family,

Angell:

their old friends from childhood that maybe is on a different path that.

Angell:

They'll never find what they're really looking for.

Angell:

They think, you know, it's on that way, but I'm, I'm very more and more aware

Angell:

because I've seen it so many times now that that's what we need to do.

Angell:

And it's difficult, right?

Angell:

It's, it's, it's hard to return to the land.

Angell:

It's hard to leave that way because you need to bring a whole

Angell:

different way of relating that we often have haven't learned right.

Angell:

From our parents, or we don't really have elders in our families.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

Lc, elders, we don't often have cosmologies stories,

Angell:

And so we're a bit like a spiritual junkie, as I call it.

Angell:

Yes.

Angell:

We consume a bit of that and we do a bit of crystal and a bit of sound

Angell:

of Taoism and a bit of Buddhism, and a bit of shamanism, blah, blah, blah.

Angell:

But we never dive deep in one, like completely like, and go through the

Angell:

despair and the not answered question and the confusion and but, but committed.

Angell:

Like you're committed to your lover, right?

Angell:

So because that's how any ancestral lineage that I work with, that's how

Angell:

They have this one connection and they tell you it's all about that.

Angell:

So we cannot really learn it in the way that we're just going to

Angell:

Starbucks every day by just going there, sitting and then leaving.

Angell:

No.

Angell:

We have to learn to grow that coffee, not just drink it.

Raven:

That's such a valid point because it's hard to get down

Raven:

It's hard to be down there in the soil and actually tending to the earth and

Raven:

, like you said, everyone wants to experience the benefits.

Raven:

Everyone wants the magic, but the magic's always there.

Raven:

It's about being able to, to access it, see it, and be aware of it.

Raven:

And especially talking about plant medicine and stuff, you mentioned that

Raven:

it'll help cure us or it'll help us, make us get through these difficult journeys.

Raven:

Especially mental or spiritual blockages that we might have.

Raven:

, but a lot of the time it's all about the connection to our family, the

Raven:

connection to our identity, sometimes even how we gotta heal those things.

Raven:

It's about integrating it.

Raven:

So you see that every day, not just whenever you're experiencing it.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

And you should be able to, you, you can't in fact do that without

Angell:

So, and we take those plants very often out of context, right?

Angell:

Because it's coming from a culture that's so different that we have

Angell:

no way to fully understand unless we live there even for 10 years.

Angell:

And then maybe we start to really understand.

Angell:

But the reason those people, you know, all over the world are living in much

Angell:

better relation to the earth is because they are in relation to the earth.

Angell:

They truly understand that intimacy.

Angell:

It's very intimate.

Angell:

It's literally like sex, right?

Angell:

It, it's very deep and there is trust and there is, you know, turmoil and

Angell:

And you know, there is a lot of movement in those energies.

Angell:

When you walk with the earth, you don't control already what's happening.

Angell:

Talk about face and surrender.

Angell:

I can't plant my seeds, it doesn't mean it's gonna come out of the ground, right?

Angell:

Even if I give all the love and all the care, but maybe it won't work.

Angell:

So you learn a lot of things about resilience, about transformation,

Angell:

about giving and receiving, about what that prayer really means.

Angell:

How does it work?

Angell:

How does it, because it really work, but how does it work in a way that's

Angell:

that's really in service of something much bigger of the collective.

Angell:

And, you know, those people live well because they have so many other

Angell:

The ceremony are usually, in fact, celebration of life, celebration

Angell:

of community, celebration of birth, celebration of death, right?

Angell:

But the, not the primary engine of transformation.

Angell:

The primary engine of transformation is the community.

Angell:

It's the relation.

Angell:

And then when I say that beyond just human beings, right?

Angell:

All of it, right?

Angell:

The, the sky and the earth, and.

Angell:

The elements and element, but in a way that's not new agey,

Angell:

that's so different from the way spirituality looks at it today.

Angell:

It's very primal, it's very direct, it's very authentic and it's

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

In fact, none of the elder I walked with talks about a spiritual

Angell:

practices or spiritual life because there's just one life.

Angell:

There's just one practice.

Angell:

There's not one that's not spiritual and what that is, right?

Angell:

Yeah.

Raven:

I think primal is the best way to describe it.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

It's our return , to the wild person inside.

Angell:

And why doesn't mean, you know, when you say why, we just imagine the crazy

Angell:

But no, the why meaning our true authentic nature and our true, authentic

Angell:

nature is to be of service of all that is in service of us already.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

We, the elements are in service of us.

Angell:

So the waters, and, you know, we're, we're constantly being served.

Angell:

We're constantly receiving.

Angell:

And so we haven't really lived that way in the western world.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

We, we've been, we've been taking Right things for granted

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

But we are not reli, true reciprocity, which also in and the

Angell:

end cosmology, you know, one of the first principles is the reciprocity.

Angell:

It's called i e right.

Angell:

It's good reciprocity.

Angell:

There's, there's a notion of exchange.

Angell:

Yeah.

Raven:

Really well said.

Raven:

Here in Western culture, we definitely have more of a consume, consume, consume

Raven:

lifestyle, especially whenever it comes to our relationship with Earth.

Raven:

Being able to reiterate, having these kind of beneficial relationships

Raven:

earth like we're supposed to be, that's really what it's all about.

Raven:

And that kind of actually leads me to my next question.

Raven:

In addition to having the retreat center up there, you also are the

Raven:

I'd love to know more about that and kind of what motivated you to

Angell:

Well I've always been quite passionate about, um, insect in general,

Angell:

Uh, in fact, when I was little, the books that I loved the most were about

Angell:

astronomy and the stars and about insect colonies and especially ants.

Angell:

I was very fascinated by ants.

Angell:

Uh, I was mesmerized that there's an insect out there that bury their dead,

Angell:

animals like, you know, ants, farm some other animals to get some milk

Angell:

like we do with cows that cultivate mushroom and other species of plant.

Angell:

Like literally they make compost and yeah, and they grow in the fields underground,

Angell:

So I was very fascinated to see like that, such a simple, small.

Angell:

In had some very similar behavior than human beings and I kind of never really

Angell:

And when I was doing my, uh, travel in Nepal, I was hiking the Himalayas.

Angell:

And one day I was just, uh, I got mesmerized by this bee.

Angell:

It was a wide bees in the Himalayas.

Angell:

I was sending on a flower and just sat there.

Angell:

And I felt that I received a message from that bee.

Angell:

And what I heard was like, why is there botanical gardens and places

Angell:

is no, there is not the same for us, for insect, for these right.

Angell:

They say you do those things, you do the, the zoo and for animal and saving them.

Angell:

We do that for, you know, botanic, croat for plants and trees,

Raven:

I think it's because most people are grossed out

Raven:

Biodiversity is biodiversity nonetheless.

Angell:

Yeah, I guess, right?

Angell:

We have some like butterfly, you know, conservatory things,

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

And I had this idea, I was, uh, saying it there.

Angell:

I said, I need to create a, a be sanctuary, a place

Angell:

And I came back with that Id when I was, spent my year abroad.

Angell:

So when I came back to New York, it was one of the things I came back with and I

Angell:

talked to a few friends and I said, Hey, I had this crazy ID and what do you think?

Angell:

And we started, you know, this nonprofit.

Angell:

Now it's been, you know, uh, 10 years that it's around and we have certified,

Angell:

the United States, Canada, Europe, India, uh, we have lands everywhere.

Angell:

In fact that people have.

Angell:

Transform into these Aries and, uh, yeah, it, it keeps growing and it always

Angell:

amaze me because there's only two or three of us and we're all volunteer.

Angell:

We don't take any money from it, but it's keep growing and we got partnership with

Angell:

know, I'm going to go to New York City in, uh, in a few weeks to help installing

Angell:

being contacted by this big real estate company that want to green their building.

Angell:

So, yeah, it looks like the bees are, are helping in the background and, uh,

Angell:

uh, it's a very big problem that we are facing, uh, the collapse of pollinators.

Angell:

I think people don't realize at all, uh, what it means and

Angell:

Um, and so, yeah, I felt like, you know, it's like a little drop in the ocean what

Angell:

do a lot of education in schools in New York and the Bronx and Brooklyn and we

Angell:

And we're also, you know, certify land.

Angell:

So we do, you know, practical land transformation preservation

Angell:

Um, so yeah, that's a little, uh, drop in the ocean for them.

Angell:

But I believe it's helping, you know,

Raven:

I definitely commend the work you're doing cuz

Raven:

The rapid decline in pollinators is something that should be

Raven:

discussed more and it's something we should all be aware of.

Raven:

, I'd also like to hear your own, , personal experience with

Raven:

entheogenic plants and plant medicine, if you don't mind me asking.

Angell:

Yeah, sure.

Angell:

Uh, well, when I, you know, when I went to Peru, First time when I went the first

Angell:

So, but when I went le a few years later, uh, someone mentioned that, you

Angell:

know, I was still kind of searching, uh, my calling in some ways, I guess.

Angell:

Uh, and someone mentioned, uh, the Shipibo tribe.

Angell:

This is as these very unc ancient tribes that has this very unique

Angell:

And they work with this vine.

Angell:

Uh, grandmother medicine.

Angell:

I was like, grandmother medicine.

Angell:

What is that?

Angell:

And, uh, they don't use any instruments or in their ceremonies.

Angell:

They just use their voice and they have these icaros, those

Angell:

When they sing it, they, they can go inside of you and text things out

Angell:

And I was like, you know, I have a medical background.

Angell:

I have a PhD in veterinary medicine, like I said, and I was like, what?

Angell:

You can heal people just by singing on them like that with a plant.

Angell:

And so I decided to go in the jungle and, you know, do a, a deta, which

Angell:

is a long format retreat where we spend many, many weeks in a jungle.

Angell:

And you get to, to live with those people and, and do a lot of ceremonies.

Angell:

And it was what blowing my mind is an understatement.

Angell:

It was just like a whole new world.

Angell:

Like I was like, whoa, what is this?

Angell:

And a lot of people, you know, I was coming for curiosity and for personal

Angell:

But you know, there was some people there with us.

Angell:

Uh, there was a no that was there.

Angell:

She had a stage three cancer.

Angell:

Wow.

Angell:

And I remember she was dressed as a, you know, Christian nun.

Raven:

Wow.

Angell:

There was some like really diverse people there.

Angell:

All religions and all different kind of background and young All right.

Angell:

Everything, and we're all like sitting in the circle and spending the whole

Angell:

And, and I just witnessed, you know, powerful transformation and healing and,

Angell:

just maybe are addicted to something and come out and they have no more

Angell:

commit suicide and they come out there are such happy butterfly and, and they,

Angell:

And, and they felt good about who they are.

Angell:

And, and so I, yeah, I decided to go back.

Angell:

You know, I went many times sitting with the people and, you know, I

Angell:

never felt called to, to serve those medicine, but I always knew that.

Angell:

When we go through something very troubling, those people out of many,

Angell:

but those people have been perfecting probably the most advanced surgery and

Angell:

medicine on the planet because they've been doing that for 10,000 years.

Angell:

We don't know, maybe more.

Angell:

And they have refined such a precise instrument through their voice

Angell:

That is, um, incredible.

Angell:

And it is complimentary, like we said earlier, to your own work, right?

Angell:

It's not like it's going to do everything for you.

Angell:

In fact, it's very challenging and on its own, if there's no support,

Angell:

But I think if you do that in complimentary of addressing what

Angell:

you know, the relationship that are broken, the things that, where you

Angell:

Or the things you do that maybe don't really serve anyone but you or maybe

Angell:

you start addressing that, I felt like it can really save your life.

Angell:

In fact, I've witnessed people life being saved and, uh, ready

Angell:

And for now, many, many years, I bring people in Peru twice a year

Angell:

in those healing retreats, and it's just extraordinary, always.

Angell:

You know, I, I feel like a child, you know, every time, even if I've been

Angell:

But I think in the right container with the right elders, with the right

Angell:

teaching around it, an integration tool, I think some, it's pretty miraculous.

Angell:

I mean, it's, it is probably not even a miracle.

Angell:

It's just the way those things works.

Angell:

Uh, but from a Western mind perspective, it can be seen really as a miracle.

Raven:

Wow.

Raven:

Yeah.

Raven:

That's really powerful what you said.

Raven:

Especially saying that their tribe has perfected a very specific,

Raven:

of surgery, um, something western medicine can't even touch yet.

Raven:

That is very powerful stuff.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

We're talking about really even changing, you know, um,

Angell:

So addiction after one night is gone, like people think differently.

Angell:

They don't have that craving anymore.

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

Things that we don't really know how to do, uh, at the

Angell:

Right.

Angell:

Uh, or even cancer, right?

Angell:

I've seen so many people in very advanced cancer that came out healed,

Angell:

but not just of the cancer, about what brought the cancer in the first place.

Angell:

Maybe that heartbreak cuz they lost someone very dear 10 years ago.

Angell:

Or maybe other things that they need to heal so their body can

Angell:

Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's so beautiful in so many ways.

Angell:

It's very sacred work, you know?

Angell:

Now it's very popular and it's not always done in the right way if you ask me.

Angell:

And I think, you know, like, like everything we touch very

Angell:

And this is far from a product.

Angell:

It's very often taken out of context of controlled context.

Angell:

Um, and I think, you know, that's, that's probably the problem today.

Angell:

But there's also, you know, a lot of people that are very serious about it

Angell:

elders, western people I'm talking and that do already great work, right?

Angell:

So that, that's also exists.

Angell:

Um, so.

Angell:

But, uh, yeah, it's, it's quite amazing and, you know, it's coming

Angell:

one on one side is a good thing cuz I think the world needs healing.

Angell:

Um, but on the other side, we need to make sure we don't contaminate those practices,

Angell:

those rituals, those people, those uh, you know, tribes with our illnesses.

Angell:

And, uh, when you start bringing money and other things, you can

Angell:

You know, there's a lot of alcoholism now in the jungle and things that

Angell:

And so there is, there is definitely a problem about this interaction

Angell:

And now it's, it's evolving, right?

Angell:

So I, I pray that there will still be 10 years from now places that it's

Angell:

And in a very respectful way too.

Angell:

Yeah, that's, that's

Raven:

a very good point.

Raven:

I mean, even though we're all thankful for accessibility and that this is

Raven:

world, now we wanna make sure that we're moving forward with an authentic way and

Raven:

making sure that we're dishonoring these thousands and thousands of your

Raven:

traditions that have been passed on through the actual tribal people.

Raven:

I think, like you said, it's important that we nurture a sort of responsible

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

If not, we, we are consumers, right?

Angell:

We just go, we pay, we consume, and we go back home.

Angell:

So we are using that as a product.

Angell:

And this is not a product, this is a, a tradition, this is a culture, right?

Angell:

So I always tell people, take the time to stay longer, to write before.

Angell:

To get to know the people, to talk with them beyond your needs.

Angell:

How they doing, what they need there.

Angell:

Right?

Angell:

How is their land doing, their waters?

Angell:

You know, there's a lot of issue with deforestation and extraction of

Angell:

resources from the ground and pollution of the waters and roads being cleared.

Angell:

And, you know, it's, it's a struggle for many, many of the tribes today.

Angell:

So we have to be very careful on how what we do might participate in that

Angell:

we come with good intention, we might not realize that in fact, my lifestyle

Angell:

And we need to change that, you know, so not just go heal ourself

Angell:

and then, you know, forget about it and move on with our life.

Raven:

Yeah, I think that's really important to underline honestly, that

Raven:

as like a, a tourist and then receiving the healing, going through the ceremony.

Raven:

And even if it's authentic and you're in, you receive the healing, but also

Raven:

home isn't indirectly interfering with the preservation of these cultures.

Raven:

How do you, how do you navigate the balance between respecting the sacredness

Raven:

their culture, but while also preserving that nature and also ensuring safety?

Angell:

Well, I think the most important is to build a

Angell:

And I think that's the only thing, in fact, because I think once you

Angell:

it could be someone, it could be a land, it could be an animal, it could

Angell:

You understand the sacredness of it, and, and once you see the sacredness of

Angell:

And change of behavior naturally are an outcome of it, right?

Angell:

So what's missing is that we, we don't have relationship.

Angell:

And relationship takes time, right?

Angell:

Relationship takes deep listening.

Angell:

Like really listen to someone, not just coming to talk about our problem, but

Angell:

And it takes commitment.

Angell:

You know, I, I cannot build a relationship with you if we just talk, talk on here,

Angell:

But if we get to talk and meet again and again and again, maybe in a few years

Angell:

But right now, I don't know you, you don't know me, right?

Angell:

Well, yeah, we might have the impression, right, because we have a good experience

Angell:

and it's fun and it's nice and I really appreciate the conversation, right?

Angell:

But to get to that more deep, intimate, relating, we need

Angell:

We need to listen more to each other.

Angell:

So I think that's, that's the most important, right?

Angell:

To commit to.

Angell:

And, and that's why, you know, I was like, you know, years ago I was like, I'm going

Angell:

commit to, to commit to that lineage of Andean cosmology and the Andes, and I'm

Angell:

And that's going to be a relationship forever, as long as it I can last, right?

Angell:

Nothing is forever, but as long as it's possible, I'm not going to run

Angell:

Or if we have a disagreement, and I think in the world of today, you know, people

Angell:

every freaking thing that they read or hear, and we run away all the time.

Angell:

It was like, oh, doesn't work for me anymore.

Angell:

I'm gonna go there.

Angell:

Oh, now there's a better place for me.

Angell:

Oh, this relationship doesn't work, right.

Angell:

It doesn't mean sometimes we don't need to cut the relationship, but most of the

Angell:

the struggle, of the misunderstanding to deepen the relationship.

Angell:

We take that as an opportunity to somehow believe that we can run away

Angell:

Which from a native perspective, from a cosmology perspective, is a big lie

Angell:

So distance is not going to change anything.

Angell:

It's an illusion.

Angell:

In fact, it's the western mind of thinking that there is separation that does not

Angell:

So, okay, well if we can't separate, then are we gonna

Angell:

Are we going to learn from each other?

Angell:

Are we going to support each other?

Angell:

And when you come to those ancient traditions, I always

Angell:

tell people, you know, find the elders calling in your prayer.

Angell:

Find the elder you want to work with or the teacher, and commit to it.

Angell:

Commit to it.

Angell:

Don't get divorced every month and marry someone else because that's

Angell:

We get married to this and divorce and divorce, you know, no, try to commit and

Angell:

There's nothing more difficult.

Angell:

That deep intimacy with anyone or anything that's going to be difficult.

Angell:

So put that first headlines A, it's gonna be hard.

Angell:

There's gonna be struggle, but out of the struggle, if we can

Angell:

work through that some, something really powerful can happen.

Angell:

It's like me, a abandoning my land because there's a dry summer.

Angell:

Uh, because this year somehow, you know, the plan didn't grow because reason

Angell:

No, I'm not quitting on her cuz she's not quitting on me.

Angell:

I'm breathing right now.

Angell:

The trees haven't quit on me.

Angell:

I'm drinking water.

Angell:

The sky and the rivers have not quit on me.

Angell:

I'm drinking food.

Angell:

I'm eating food and plants and animals.

Angell:

They haven't quit on me.

Angell:

We have to realize that that relationship is with something that always care

Angell:

for us, is always in service and our constant quitting is terrible.

Angell:

It's dishonest, it's a lie.

Angell:

Basically, we're lying to ourself that somehow we can do that, but in fact

Angell:

we can't and we really have to respect the immense love that we're getting.

Angell:

Cuz to me it's love, right?

Angell:

Receiving all that for free constantly without, I could be the most horrible

Angell:

burn forest and holy rivers, I'm still going to be fed and have good hair to

Angell:

She's like this amazing mother, like unconditional love.

Angell:

Can I do that back?

Angell:

Can I give that back?

Angell:

To that level, that kind of thing.

Angell:

Even when I'm upset to every children of the earth, meaning

Angell:

sometime upset me and triggers the hell out of me because I'm human.

Angell:

Can I comment to that kind of love?

Angell:

That's the real stretch if you ask me.

Angell:

You know, I always tell people it's easy to love your dog.

Angell:

That doesn't require any, any skills, you know, or, or my cat.

Angell:

I love my cat.

Angell:

Right?

Angell:

It, it, it is not really hard, right?

Angell:

Uh, to love a sunset or the night sky in the stars, in the sky where

Angell:

The question is, can I love the part of creation that maybe are hard

Angell:

Even that president or that, uh, c e o or that ex-partner,

Angell:

They're still, you know, are.

Angell:

Somehow inside carrying that magic.

Angell:

Can I find my way back?

Angell:

Can I still love, right?

Angell:

Or do I just love because I'm getting something like my dog when

Angell:

But if he was not waving its tale and barking at me or trying to bite

Angell:

Or do I love because I'm getting something out of it?

Angell:

That's not love.

Angell:

That's not love.

Angell:

You're taking, love is giving.

Angell:

It's giving.

Angell:

So, and dogs have understood that, right?

Angell:

They're very good lovers.

Angell:

They're the the big givers, right?

Angell:

But what do we really love when we are in a relationship is that animal, right?

Angell:

So we really have to question the nature of our relationship ultimately,

Angell:

because the way we learned it in the western world is very broken.

Angell:

That's not true Relationship.

Angell:

No, it's a con.

Angell:

It's contractual and it's imbalanced.

Angell:

It's not true reciprocity.

Raven:

Right.

Raven:

I honestly think you may have just a answered my next question I was

Raven:

you've studied Norse mythology, you've studied Andean cosmology,

Raven:

you've traveled all over the world studying multiple different cultures.

Raven:

I was gonna ask what your biggest take home messages for the listeners, what

Raven:

But like I said, I think you may have just answered it.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

I mean, it's, uh, you know, I'm going to quote, uh, man with, uh, Lakota Elder,

Angell:

uh, that live on Pine Ridge reservation and that I spent some time with.

Angell:

And, uh, I'm fascinated by the Lakota people and the tradition and

Angell:

And, uh, honor, despite all what they've been through and still going through

Angell:

me as a non Native American person to love me, to include me, like family, to

Angell:

me, that's, that's the biggest teaching I've ever received beyond anything else.

Angell:

They've taught me how to be a good human being, right?

Angell:

How to be kind, how to be forgiving, how to love really how to, how to love.

Angell:

Cause they, they show us the way.

Angell:

And one day I ask him the same man, uh, can you just like got a way of life?

Angell:

What is it about like, I mean, what's the core of it?

Angell:

I ask him kind of that right?

Angell:

A little bit of what you're asking me.

Angell:

I say, what's the core of it?

Angell:

I said, if you could resume it in one phrase.

Angell:

So he sat there.

Angell:

And, um, he look at me and he say, it's to be a good relative, to be a good relative.

Angell:

I was like, okay.

Angell:

So I was like, I think, you know, I get it right.

Angell:

Like to be, you know, good relation with each other.

Angell:

And then he added, he said, but you know, it's hard to be a good relative.

Angell:

Right?

Angell:

And that's the same in andean cosmology.

Angell:

It's, it's, it's learning to be in good relation.

Angell:

And it means that when, it's hard, when we have anger, when we have

Angell:

how do I return to that kind of love, to the one that really is feeding

Angell:

Can I express that when I look at my enemy and see the same beauty

Angell:

that when I look at the sky with the stars, that's what he told me.

Angell:

He say, you, you need to see the same beauty.

Angell:

If not, that's where your work is.

Angell:

So that's why we see you as a relative.

Angell:

That's why you are family.

Angell:

I mean, we're not saying little brother as a play of word.

Angell:

We mean it.

Angell:

You are a family, like real family, like the tree and they, and they have an

Angell:

even for me being walking this way for a long time, I don't experience it to that.

Angell:

Yeah, I can say it, we are related and all of that, but not, you know,

Angell:

to decolonize my mind to really experience that in a way that, yeah,

Angell:

Like they just cut, they just killed my grandfather.

Angell:

Like that level of grief.

Angell:

Putting their life, you know, on the line at Standing Rock for the waters, because

Angell:

Well, we'll lose our life if we have to.

Angell:

It's our mother.

Angell:

You know, that that level of relation, that level, level of connection

Angell:

they're teaching us to find this way back into that sense of belonging.

Angell:

Right?

Angell:

And there is, yeah, many ways, many paths, many tradition.

Angell:

You know, I think they all bring something slightly different, but

Angell:

Ultimately, they're all pointing at the end to the same place, right?

Raven:

Wow.

Raven:

Well, thank you for sharing that with me.

Raven:

I think, like you said, they, a lot of these are pointing to

Raven:

the same place and I just really appreciate you sharing your insights.

Raven:

Um, to be honest with you, I could talk to you for hours.

Raven:

I hope to have you on the show again someday.

Raven:

It pleasure.

Raven:

Cause I have, I have so many more questions we'd even get

Raven:

I really wanna dive into that.

Raven:

, I really, I feel like you have so much to share.

Angell:

Thank you Raven.

Angell:

I really enjoyed our conversation and uh, it's very kind of you to Yeah.

Angell:

Interview me and, uh, yeah, I really enjoyed being, uh,

Raven:

Yeah, you as well.

Raven:

I really, I'm honored to host the space for us.

Raven:

Um, I really think that the listeners will appreciate our insightful conversation.

Raven:

Um, I guess my last question is where, can anyone find you online or

Raven:

look up more information about your retreat center or anything like that?

Angell:

Yeah, people can go, you know, on, on my website, it's the sanctuary

Angell:

heal.com, so the THE sanctuary, like a sanctuary and heal h e a l.com.

Angell:

And, you know, they can find me also on Instagram, the sanctuary dot Angell Deer.

Angell:

Angell has two l Uh, yeah.

Angell:

And, you know, we do a lot of, uh, online things for people that

Angell:

You know, we do a lot of Ancient Cosmology.

Angell:

In fact, we have our very big class starting early July for five

Angell:

teacher where we're going to bring together Aztec Manan and, and then

Angell:

Uh, we bring it together in a quite interesting format.

Angell:

It's online, right?

Angell:

So we, we do that.

Angell:

We try as often as we can to bring.

Angell:

Sharing that wisdom because, you know, it's not for me already.

Angell:

It's what I receive.

Angell:

It's to be given, right?

Angell:

So, uh, I'm just saying what I learned and sharing it and hopefully

Angell:

So yeah, please connect, you know, and or come visit if you're

Angell:

nearby and arrive when you're invited, come check the land and.

Angell:

Yeah,

Raven:

be careful.

Raven:

I'm only about six hours away.

Angell:

Yeah.

Angell:

Well we have a lot, we have a lot of wood to chop, but No, it's pleasure.

Angell:

Just come hang out and enjoy.

Angell:

It's, it's such a magical place here.

Angell:

It's, uh, the life is really, uh, alive.

Angell:

We, we take a lot of time on the land.

Angell:

We give a lot to it, and we can feel it back.

Raven:

Okay, that is all we have for today, everyone.

Raven:

I'm your host, Raven, and I thank you very much for listening to this

Raven:

That was Angell Deere, and you could find his work by checking out the

Raven:

sanctuary heel.com or Angell social media, both located down in the show.

Raven:

If you enjoyed this conversation, I encourage you to share it with someone

Raven:

I'd also be eternally grateful if you were to take a second and give

Raven:

the show a five star rating on your favorite podcasting platform.

Raven:

Little things like that help us spread the love far and wide to the Cosmo.

Raven:

For questions, comments, and community connect with us on our official

Raven:

Until next time, everyone.

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About the Podcast

Plants Saved My Life
Uncover the healing potential of plant medicine with the "Plants Saved My Life" podcast. Join us weekly for real stories from patients who have overcome chronic conditions with the help of plant-based treatments and insights from specialized medical practitioners, therapists, shamans, and other experts in non-pharmacological forms of healing.

Learn about the latest advancements in patient-focused, holistic medicine and the potential of plant medicine in healing various disorders. Discover the benefits of entheogens, naturopathy, psychedelics, and functional nutrition.

Get a glimpse into the regulatory landscape of plant medicine in America and the end of the War on Drugs. Hear about the therapeutic benefits of psychedelic mushrooms, ayahuasca, iboga, medical marijuana/cannabis, kratom, and other non-traditional methods of healing.

Join host Raven Ariola, a scientific advisor, consultant, and educator in the medical cannabis space and founder of Entheo Wellness, for inspiring conversations and an exploration of the plants and fungi we owe our health and happiness to. "Plants Saved My Life" - demystifying and destigmatizing alternative forms of healing
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Raven Ariola

Passionate about plants. Raven is a medical cannabis scientist, consultant, and educator based in Pittsburgh, PA. Through his experience in the plant medicine industry, Raven has learned that real patient stories can often get lost in the static. A dedicated lifelong learner, he aims to bridge educational gaps and inspire compassion while providing these voices a platform.